Route 17

[MJP]

I have either read online and/or heard in a podcast or TV programme a suggestion that the killer(s) may have come across the victims elsewhere than the places that the vehicles and bodies were located.

I wanted to flag up that Route 17 appears in some of the cases being discussed in the main/other threads:

Brian Pettinger was last seen on W. Mercury Boulevard, very close to where Route 17 intersects with the Boulevard.  Route 17 is a direct way of travelling from W. Mercury to Chuckatuck Creek, where Brian's body was found.

Laurie Ann Powell was last seen walking towards Route 17 in the White Marsh area.  Route 17 is also a direct way of travelling between White Marsh and the area of the James River where her body was subsequently found.

David Knobling and Robin Edwards: David collected Robin from her home (I think this is correct?) and her home is close to Route 17 and, from there, Route 17 takes you to the Ragged Island area.

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in Grafton (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.

When I get time I will post maps illustrating these possible journeys.

...

There isn't as far as I'm aware a reasonable way to connect Route 17 to Cathy Thomas and Becky Dowski because the proximity of the Colonial Parkway to William and Mary would seem to make that unnecessary.

I'm not including Daniel Lauer and Annamaria Phelps' murders here as I do not believe those fit at all with the above murders. 

 



 

[billthom56]

MJP:

You could be on to something here.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[englishman]

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.


 

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

[billthom56]

Sept 30, 2018 22:29:10 GMT englishman said:

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.


 

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

English:

Yes, Keith Call had promised her parents that he would have Cassandra Hailey home by 2:00 am in Grafton, VA. By most accounts from people we have talked to who attended the party at Christopher Newport University (CNU)  Apartments, Keith and Cassandra left the party in Newport News at around 1:30 am to head home.

Google Maps has the drive from CNU to Gtafton as 16-17 minutes via J. Clyde Morris Blvd and Route 17 North.  The Colonial Parkway pull-off where Keith's car was found is another 15 minutes past Grafton to the northwest.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[englishman]

Sept 30, 2018 22:39:03 GMT billthom56 said:

Sept 30, 2018 22:29:10 GMT englishman said:

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

English:

Yes, Keith Call had promised her parents that he would have Cassandra Hailey home by 2:00 am in Grafton, VA. By most accounts from people we have talked to who attended the party at Christopher Newport University (CNU)  Apartments, Keith and Cassandra left the party in Newport News at around 1:30 am to head home.

Google Maps has the drive from CNU to Gtafton as 16-17 minutes via J. Clyde Morris Blvd and Route 17 North.  The Colonial Parkway pull-off where Keith's car was found is another 15 minutes past Grafton to the northwest.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

Was it true that they both disliked the parkway? What I struggle with is how did Keith's car get there if they were killed somewhere else, other then an accomplice I can't see that happening unless CPK has flagged them down to a pre-planned site with a getaway car, but that would be a ridiculous thing to pull off. 

[MJP]

Sept 30, 2018 22:29:10 GMT englishman said:

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.


 

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

Thanks English.  Grafton it is.

[(AQ)]

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

I have either read online and/or heard in a podcast or TV programme a suggestion that the killer(s) may have come across the victims elsewhere than the places that the vehicles and bodies were located.

I wanted to flag up that Route 17 appears in some of the cases being discussed in the main/other threads:

Brian Pettinger was last seen on W. Mercury Boulevard, very close to where Route 17 intersects with the Boulevard.  Route 17 is a direct way of travelling from W. Mercury to Chuckatuck Creek, where Brian's body was found.

Laurie Ann Powell was last seen walking towards Route 17 in the White Marsh area.  Route 17 is also a direct way of travelling between White Marsh and the area of the James River where her body was subsequently found.

David Knobling and Robin Edwards: David collected Robin from her home (I think this is correct?) and her home is close to Route 17 and, from there, Route 17 takes you to the Ragged Island area.

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.

When I get time I will post maps illustrating these possible journeys.

...

There isn't as far as I'm aware a reasonable way to connect Route 17 to Cathy Thomas and Becky Dowski because the proximity of the Colonial Parkway to William and Mary would seem to make that unnecessary.
I'm not including Daniel Lauer and Annamaria Phelps' murders here as I do not believe those fit at all with the above murders. 

 


I believe David Knobling initially picked Robin Edwards up at her home, and they along with David's brother and cousin went out to an arcade.  They all went to their respective homes and Robin Edwards then sneaked out of her house late in the evening. She called David to come pick her up.  No one knew where they were meeting nor why.  This was the last, from what I've read so far, that anyone heard from them.      ---  This was new info to me  that I stumbled upon just a couple of nights ago

Route 17.... still could come into play if it's close to her home.   
 

[MJP]

Sept 30, 2018 22:29:10 GMT englishman said:

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.


 

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

English - one other thing - I think Cassandra and Keith did end up being in the Parkway.  I'm sure I read something about dogs tracking their scents from the car; will dig it out and post it for you.

[MJP]

Sept 30, 2018 22:29:10 GMT englishman said:

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.


 

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

Here's the article:

[MJP]

Sept 30, 2018 23:20:33 GMT (AQ) said:

Sept 30, 2018 19:58:50 GMT MJP said:

I have either read online and/or heard in a podcast or TV programme a suggestion that the killer(s) may have come across the victims elsewhere than the places that the vehicles and bodies were located.

I wanted to flag up that Route 17 appears in some of the cases being discussed in the main/other threads:

Brian Pettinger was last seen on W. Mercury Boulevard, very close to where Route 17 intersects with the Boulevard.  Route 17 is a direct way of travelling from W. Mercury to Chuckatuck Creek, where Brian's body was found.

Laurie Ann Powell was last seen walking towards Route 17 in the White Marsh area.  Route 17 is also a direct way of travelling between White Marsh and the area of the James River where her body was subsequently found.

David Knobling and Robin Edwards: David collected Robin from her home (I think this is correct?) and her home is close to Route 17 and, from there, Route 17 takes you to the Ragged Island area.

Cassandra Hailey and Keith Call: Route 17 would take Keith towards Cassandra's home in (...) (I forget the name; will add it in later) but something or someone prevented that drop-off.  If you continue driving on Route 17 it takes you up to Yorktown and the start of the Colonial Parkway, where Keith's car was abandoned.

When I get time I will post maps illustrating these possible journeys.

...

There isn't as far as I'm aware a reasonable way to connect Route 17 to Cathy Thomas and Becky Dowski because the proximity of the Colonial Parkway to William and Mary would seem to make that unnecessary.
I'm not including Daniel Lauer and Annamaria Phelps' murders here as I do not believe those fit at all with the above murders. 

 


I believe David Knobling initially picked Robin Edwards up at her home, and they along with David's brother and cousin went out to an arcade.  They all went to their respective homes and Robin Edwards then sneaked out of her house late in the evening. She called David to come pick her up.  No one knew where they were meeting nor why.  This was the last, from what I've read so far, that anyone heard from them.      ---  This was new info to me  that I stumbled upon just a couple of nights ago

Route 17.... still could come into play if it's close to her home.   
 

Thanks Always.  Do you remember where you saw or heard this ^^^ ?

[(AQ)]

Sept 30, 2018 23:51:04 GMT MJP said:

Sept 30, 2018 23:20:33 GMT (AQ) said:

Thanks Always.  Do you remember where you saw or heard this ^^^ ?

Anniversary of Robin Edwards/ David Knobling Death

[englishman]

Sept 30, 2018 23:42:31 GMT MJP said:

Sept 30, 2018 22:29:10 GMT englishman said:

I think the place is called Grafton. I had a look at the route from the University a month back towards Grafton, this one has always puzzled me as they apparently didn't like the Parkway and were rumoured to not be particularly hitting it off at the party they attended. I was hoping LE searched the marshland area of the Poquoson River off Route 17.

Here's the article:

Thanks for digging this out, the currents must be strong in that river.

Still what I want to work out is why they were on the parkway, they were on a first date not as romantically involved as it could appear and Keith seemed concerned about meeting Cassandra's curfew, only thing I can think of is they went there for a chat or some quiet time together. 

[MJP]

Oct 1, 2018 18:27:26 GMT englishman said:

Sept 30, 2018 23:42:31 GMT MJP said:

Here's the article:

Thanks for digging this out, the currents must be strong in that river.

Still what I want to work out is why they were on the parkway, they were on a first date not as romantically involved as it could appear and Keith seemed concerned about meeting Cassandra's curfew, only thing I can think of is they went there for a chat or some quiet time together. 

IMO they didn't travel to the CP on their own accord.  

I read somewhere that Cassandra did not like the CP (thought it was creepy).  Also Keith's family felt he wouldn't have wanted to be on the CP in the middle of the night; will try to find the exact article that mentions this.

Both Keith and Cassandra are described as responsible people, that both would've respected the 0200 hrs curfew deadline.  IMO they left the party at 0130 hrs so that the curfew would be met.  I don't believe they would've driven 15-20 minutes past the Hailey home to go to a place that neither would want to be at during the night and, in doing so, miss the curfew deadline.

From the dog tracking article, both of them ended up on the CP in Keith's car but I'm not sure that means they went there voluntarily or even that they were alive when the car was driven onto the CP.

[englishman]

Oct 1, 2018 19:09:45 GMT MJP said:

Oct 1, 2018 18:27:26 GMT englishman said:

Thanks for digging this out, the currents must be strong in that river.

Still what I want to work out is why they were on the parkway, they were on a first date not as romantically involved as it could appear and Keith seemed concerned about meeting Cassandra's curfew, only thing I can think of is they went there for a chat or some quiet time together. 

IMO they didn't travel to the CP on their own accord.  

I read somewhere that Cassandra did not like the CP (thought it was creepy).  Also Keith's family felt he wouldn't have wanted to be on the CP in the middle of the night; will try to find the exact article that mentions this.

Both Keith and Cassandra are described as responsible people, that both would've respected the 0200 hrs curfew deadline.  IMO they left the party at 0130 hrs so that the curfew would be met.  I don't believe they would've driven 15-20 minutes past the Hailey home to go to a place that neither would want to be at during the night and, in doing so, miss the curfew deadline.

From the dog tracking article, both of them ended up on the CP in Keith's car but I'm not sure that means they went there voluntarily or even that they were alive when the car was driven onto the CP.

Possible scenarios I can think of is someone approached them outside the party (a risky move in my opinion), flagged them down somewhere or they picked someone up who turned on them. When I look of maps of the parkway I notice it's quiet but it's not exactly isolated the Naval Weapons Base and Yorktown are all within walking distance.

[MJP]

Oct 1, 2018 19:09:45 GMT MJP said:

Oct 1, 2018 18:27:26 GMT englishman said:

Thanks for digging this out, the currents must be strong in that river.

Still what I want to work out is why they were on the parkway, they were on a first date not as romantically involved as it could appear and Keith seemed concerned about meeting Cassandra's curfew, only thing I can think of is they went there for a chat or some quiet time together. 

IMO they didn't travel to the CP on their own accord.  

I read somewhere that Cassandra did not like the CP (thought it was creepy).  Also Keith's family felt he wouldn't have wanted to be on the CP in the middle of the night; will try to find the exact article that mentions this.

Both Keith and Cassandra are described as responsible people, that both would've respected the 0200 hrs curfew deadline.  IMO they left the party at 0130 hrs so that the curfew would be met.  I don't believe they would've driven 15-20 minutes past the Hailey home to go to a place that neither would want to be at during the night and, in doing so, miss the curfew deadline.

From the dog tracking article, both of them ended up on the CP in Keith's car but I'm not sure that means they went there voluntarily or even that they were alive when the car was driven onto the CP.

Here's a snip from the article mentioned above: